CHAPTER NINE: The Knowledge of God
July 23rd, 2008 by Todd Johnson
OK everyone… moving on to chapter nine.
For those that are new to the blog, a group of us have been reading a book together and joining up during the week to discuss and comment, and learn with and from each other. The book is called The Reason for God by Timothy Keller. Feel free to join in if you’d like or to simply read and comment as you feel prompted to do so.
I have still been enjoying some vacation time with my family and I haven’t yet read up on chapter nine, so I’m leaving it up to you all to get the conversation started.
26 Responses to “CHAPTER NINE: The Knowledge of God”
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About Todd
Name: Todd Johnson
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Contact: todd@crossroadslive.com
About: Todd is the husband of Sharon, the father of Morgan, Caleb, Makenzie & Claire, and a pastor at Crossroads Church. He considers each of these roles the greatest of privileges.
Verse of the Week
“By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. 17 But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.”
- 1 John 3:16-18 ESV
Now
Reading:
“The Reason for God” by Tim Keller
“Memoir and Remains of R.M.M’Cheyne” by Andrew A. Bonar
“The Supremacy of God in Preaching” by John Piper
“Above All Earthly Pow’rs” by David F. Wells
Listening:
Coldplay - Viva la Vida
Jack Johnson - Sleep Through the Static
Scott Cunningham - ‘Til the Whole World Hears
Archives:
- Devotionals (2)
- Quotes (1)
- Recommended Links (4)
- Recommended Resource (5)
- Sermon Wrap-up (5)
- Blog Archives >
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July 24th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
I think we’ve all forgotten what the chapter said, because Sunday (when we cram) was so long ago.
Maybe this could be the week where we share recipes.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ….Oh! You startled me! I thought we were all having a nap time. What were we talking about?
On a side note - Together For The Gospel 08 is available for download at http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/Resources/T4G.aspx
Session 7 - “How the Supremacy of Christ Creates Radical Christian Sacrifice” by John Piper was powerful!!!
July 25th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Perry, yesterday I listened to RC Sproul on the Curse from that conference. I’m almost done. Pretty thought provoking. (That last word sure looks mispelled)
July 25th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Knowing we all know God, this chp. has still been a learning experience for me. I have always had a problem with people saying, “Oh, I believe in God, but not the bible, Jesus, etc.” On page 157, Keller says, “having one’s cake and eating it, too.” I have a neighbor that thinks this way, very strongly, (others too) but still says, “I am still looking.” Wants her cake too…??? What joy can a person have with that kind of thinking?? I think people like this, are really afraid that they might be missing something, and have a sad heart. What do you think??
Hey, we have to get something on this blog, or Todd will think we all left town too~~~~~~~~
Blessings…
July 25th, 2008 at 9:57 am
CORRECTION - - - we don’t know God literally, but WE KNOW there is one, AMEN!!!!!!!!
Blessings…
July 25th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Do any of you remember the movie “Bicentennial Man”? It’s about a robot that is miraculously endowed with a human consciousness. It creates original works of art that were not part of its programming. It expresses emotions and develops a sense of right and wrong that was also not a part of its programming. The robot’s owner notices this early on and begins a process to develop these qualities to their full potential. The company that designed the robot wants to reprogram it. The owner of the robot is astonished at the company’s inability to see its uniqueness and refuses to allow it. The robot’s personality continues to become more and more human as time goes on until it is finally granted status as a fully fledged human being.
What I find interesting is that even though they can perceive the miraculous nature of the robots uniqueness nobody in this movie ever asks how or why. Nobody stops to consider that something spiritual is happening; that this isn’t an accident or random occurrence but that SOMEONE intended this robot to be human. They accept that the robot is unusual and that it acts and thinks like a human but they never attempt to look deeper into the cause of this anomaly.
This is exactly what we see happening in the world around us. The evolutionists tell us that we are nothing but highly evolved animals and at the same time ignore our obvious moral makeup. They see no examples in the animal kingdom of morals or love or sacrifice or compassion. In fact, what they see is the exact opposite, survival of the fittest. Yet even though the image of God is blazing brightly for all of them to see they stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it.
This is not a battle of evidence! The evidence is plain for all of them to see. This is a moral and spiritual battle. They don’t see because they don’t want to see. They don’t want to see because then they would have to acknowledge that there is a God in whom they must one day give account. They love the darkness rather than the light.
One more thing – I found it interesting that in the movie the company that built the robot, instead of looking deeper into the reasons behind its humanness, wanted to reprogram it instead. This was their solution to the miracle, erase it. Sounds a lot like our education system, don’t you think?
July 25th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Hi! I’m new to the blog and I am starting in chapter nine.
I liked what Keller said on page 156 ” I have not tried to prove the existance of God to you. My goal has been to show you that you already know God is there.” I need to remember this when talking to non-believers, or so I thought they were.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Hi Millie! Welcome!
July 25th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Good thoughts Perry,
I really enjoyed this chapter the way Keller dealt with the couple who were seeking to me was beautiful. To ask them questions and talk to them about why they believe what they believe, and try to have them truly think about why they believe it. Then to me your letting them ponder these things for them selves and allowing the Holy Spirit to do His work. In the not to far past I would have given them the “Truth” which to me would have been telling them how stupid there position is and arguing with them about how they can’t possibly have a bases for their position. I then would have given them the gospel. This I heard called the sledge hammer approach. I used this on an old friend of mine once who was in a real vulnerable state and was seeking and came to me. I remember he was looking into new age thought and one thing led to another and I told him that there is such a thing as ultimate Truth and I told him 2+2 always = 4 when he disagreed I told him one day when he comes back from lala land he’ll have to face the fact that there is a ultimate Truth and I have it (I didn’t say this last part but I might as well have). Then I gave him the book Mere Christianity and sent him on his way. I wonder if he read it? NOT.
Anyways Keller’s approach has really helped me to self examine my self and my motives and the way in which I approach witnessing. I have to remember that it’s the Holy Spirits work to bring them to the Lord my jobs to give them an answer with gentleness and respect and to love them. May my future opportunities glorify Him.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Hi Millie welcome, I enjoyed that take by Keller to. The fact that all people know there’s a God and suppress the Truth in unrighteousness was great.
When you said “I need to remember this when talking to non-believers, or so I thought they were.” I was wondering were you saying that the people you were talking to who you thought were non-believers you found out were really believers or that now you see all non-believers as really believers (a form of universalism)?
July 26th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Tom, What I meant by that was people who I thought were non-believers turned out to believe in God already.
July 26th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Millie,
Thanks for the clarification sometimes it’s hard to know where people are coming from or what their trying to say. I also think it helps us to get to know each other better.
God Bless
July 26th, 2008 at 10:03 am
QUESTION FOR ANYONE…. When someone says to you, “Oh, I believe in God, but not the bible, Jesus being the son of God, etc. What do you think? We all know what scripture says, but what are your feelings and gut reaction, really within yourself? Wonder if others feel like I do?
being we are posting.
Todd will be a happy camper
Blessings…
July 26th, 2008 at 10:40 am
TW - Good question. We all come across those individuals who say “I believe in God”, yet deny the power thereof. I can think of a few talk show hosts off hand. I guess my gut reaction or what goes on in my head when I meet someone who says that is disbelief in their belief. It’s not true belief there proclaiming. They don’t live like they believe and therefore they don’t truly believe. I like what James says: “You show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works.” The sad truth is that churches, ours included, are filled with unbelievers who say that very thing.
July 26th, 2008 at 11:04 am
TW,
The first thing that comes to my mind is, were did they get their information or idea about “God”? Did he give them a vision, maybe they had an inner feeling like a burning in the bosom. Or maybe “God” spoke to them audibly, I basically want to know were their idea of “God” came from and how can they trust it or know that it’s real. Usually their “God” is just a bigger version of themselves or a smorgasbord of ideas that their comfortable with.
Another thought that comes to me is have they read the bible for themselves or are they just basing their distrust on it from what others have told them or said.
July 26th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
“You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!” James 2:19 (ESV)
TW- I think that there are a lot of people who think they believe in God. Yet they deny Jesus. I think Jesus is the key. If they say they believe in God it does nothing for them if they do not put their faith and trust into Jesus and what he accomplished on the cross. This is what separates a person from a belief in God and a belief in “the God” of the bible.
Any belief in God that rejects Jesus or His divinity is idolatry. You are changing Gods character as defined in the Word of God. And if you “change” Gods attributes or character to fit how you feel about God then you are breaking the first and second commandment. Woe to you.
If someone believes in God yet not Jesus we need to earnestly pray that the Holy Spirit would reveal the Fathers Glory to that person so that they may come to a knowledge of the true God of the bible. pray pray pray.
Grace
July 26th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Welcome Millie. I hope you find yourself at home here. Just beware of Perry… he can be kind of a dufus.
July 26th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
That’s Mr Dufus to you Mike!
July 26th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Thanks for the welcome everyone! Mike I liked what you said about praying for those who don’t believe in Jesus, I often forget the power of prayer. I have a friend at work who says she believes in God and Jesus but feels that the bible doesn’t have an answer for everything. She does admit however that she hasn’t read all of the bible. Before I was a christian I knew parts of the bible much like my friend, but I didn’t want the answers I wanted to make my own choices and only change what I was comfortable with. Making uncomfortable changes of course have drawn me closer to the Lord and further from myself. (still a work in progress). None of this possible without a relationship with the Lord. I don’t want to push my friend away but it’s been on my heart to talk to her about her concerns with the bible. Your prayers along with any advice on what to say would be greatly appreciated!
July 26th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Hi Millie… If you don’t mind, I would like to share with you, what I do, when I am not sure what to do. I pray and asked the Holy Spirit to open the door, give me the perfect words, give me peace about it. If, the doors do not open, I leave it alone and let the Lord deal with it. Always remember, that the Lord knows her heart. If she believes in God and Jesus, that is a wonderful start, AMEN!!! Keep praying for her, and be that beautiful light that shines for Him, so she will see that there is something different about you. And, of course that is the Holy Spirit living within you. Will be praying for you too.
Blessings…
July 26th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
TW, Thanks so much for your advice and prayers. Your’e right God knows her heart and I’m sure he will show me what to do.
July 26th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Millie - What is your friends name? We’ll try to remember to pray for her.
July 27th, 2008 at 8:10 am
My friends name is Donna. Thank you for the prayers!
July 27th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Todd… Thank you, so much for inviting Pastor Lou, what a blessing and delight. He taught on 1 Peter 1-5, but only got to vs. 2. This man, can get sooooo excited, over one word from the bible, it was so energizing to my spirit. On “SCATTERED” how we are the seed for the Glory of God. Wonderful teaching on foreknowledge, regarding problems, “excellent.” Jesus, “Will you walk with me through this?” This teaching confirms, so much what we have been sharing on this blog. I am sure, all who heard Lou today, their spirit was blessed. We decided afterwards that he is, a Christian Richard Dryfuss!!! Would love to meet him.
Welcome home!!!!!!
Blessings….
July 27th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Millie,
One thing that I’ve found very effective, as well as easy is to just ask questions. I remember reading something a number of years ago that suggested this. His point was that most non-Christians haven’t fully thought out their views, and often you can stir them more by asking questions (curiously, rather than in the form of an attack) than by talking about what you believe.
People are generally very willing to talk about themselves and you learn a lot along the way. Very often you’ll find that it doesn’t take a lot of questions to get to a crisis point in their belief.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Chris,
Thanks for the advice. My friend Donna is pretty easy to talk to, so asking questions in that manner is a great idea. She’s on vacation this week but I will keep everyone posted.